Posted by Matt Ball, MSN UK editor-in-chief (twitter.com/thisismattball)
This week we ran a couple of slides on the MSN UK homepage about the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition.
It was “a historic alliance”, we said.
Here is what some of our readers had to say about our choice of indefinite article (I’ve pasted each one verbatim):
A Historic Alliance…h is a silent vowel, it SHOULD read An Historic Alliance
Hi – apologies for this – but the banner on your homepage reads "A Historic Alliance" – this is a grammatical error as it should be "AN Historic Alliance"
Sorry for being picky!
Thanks
Your lead picture titled ‘A Historic Alliance’, should read ‘An Historic Alliance’.Please employ people with a better understanding of grammar if you are looking to be taken seriously.
the Queen’s English states it should be "An historic alliance" not A historic alliance
I think you’ll find that your headline "A historic alliance" is grammatically incorrect. It should be "An historic alliance".
The headline on the MSN homepage reads ‘A historic alliance’, this is incorrect as it should read ‘An historic alliance’. Please forward this to the relevant editor. Thank you.
‘A historic alliance’Basic elementary english mistake?Try ‘An historic alliance’
Please try to make your writers use the correct grammar and sentence construction. Your current headline reads, "A Historic Alliance". The correct version is "An Historic Alliance". Words which start with "H" are always preceeded by "an", not "a". I’m fed up with seeing these sorts of errors on your website. It’s appalling. Presumably most of your writers have degrees, so they should know better.
Thanks to everyone who wrote in. We value all the feedback we receive.
I admit it did look a bit odd to me.
So what’s the correct answer?
Well, our own style guide tells us to use ‘a’ rather than ‘an’ for this. We haven’t published our style guide, unlike many newspapers and broadcasters (although I am reviewing that decision) so allow me to explain our sources for this.
1. We often take a lead from the Guardian Style Guide because it is one of the more progressive guides and we believe that web writing requires a more progressive style.
2. We also review the Cambridge Advanced Learner’s dictionary and the Oxford English Dictionary.
Where all three show consensus that usually prevails in our own guide.
We also take into account circumstances specific to writing for the web that are not normally found in other style guides (such as hyperlinking) and circumstances specific to writing for MSN.
In the case of historic, you can find all three sources I list above use ‘a’ rather than ‘an’.
Here are the screenshots:
From the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide/h
From the Cambridge Advanced Learner’s dictionary:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/historic
From the Oxford English Dictionary:
http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50106577?single=1&query_type=word&queryword=historic&first=1&max_to_show=10
So that’s why MSN used ‘a’.
Hope that’s cleared it up.
PS
That doesn’t mean ‘an’ is wrong. It just means MSN uses ‘a’.
Other guides such as the Times Style Online Guide recommend using ‘an’.
Basically it no longer matters – as with so many things but it depends if the H is sounded or not. Seems fair to me.From the Guide to Grammar and Style by Jack Lynch.A or An. Use an in place of a when it precedes a vowel sound, not just a vowel. That means it\’s "an honuor" (the h is silent), but "a UFO" (because it\’s pronounced yoo eff oh).Most of the confusion with a or an arises from acronyms and other abbreviations: some people think it\’s wrong to use an in front of an abbreviation like "MRI" because "an" can only go before vowels. Not so: the sound, not the letter, is what matters. Because you pronounce it "em ar eye," it\’s "an MRI."One tricky case comes up from time to time: is it "a historic occasion" or "an historic occasion"? Some speakers favour the latter — more British than American speakers, but you\’ll find them in both places — using an on longish words (three or more syllables) beginning with h, where the first syllable isn\’t accented. They\’d say, for instance, "a hístory textbook" (accent on the first syllable) but "an históric event." (Likewise "a hábit" but "an habítual offender," "a hýpothetical question" but "an hypóthesis.") Still, most guides prefer a before any h that\’s sounded: "a historic occasion," "a hysterical joke," "a habitual offender" — but "an honour" and "an hour" because those h\’s aren\’t sounded. [Entry revised 21 April 2006; revised again 10 December 2006.]
To the person who wrote, \’Words which start with "H" are always preceeded by "an", not "a".\’ I am curious to know how they use the indefinite article in relation to the word, \’house\’; surely they wouldn\’t say, "I live in an house."? Perhaps a little less pedantry is in order- only words which begin with a silent \’h\’ are preceded with \’an\’; this is not always the case as pronounciation, including aspiration, is based upon dialectal variation.
An amusing debate, if only because of the number of folk who seem to think that the "h" in historic is not pronounced. There are, of course, those who pronounce "historic" as "\’istoric" and for them, it would be quite proper to use "an" so that the term would be "an \’istoric". However, for those who pronounce the word with an aspirated "h" (being those generally who are a little more fussy about pronunciation, it would be inappropriate to use "an". Those who suggest that "a" is correct are quite possible the same folk who insist on pronouncing the name of the letter "H" as "haitch" rather than "aitch" (proceeded by a glockel-stop). Reminds of the old comedian who suggested she is "more grammatically correcter" than her friend.
The most interesting part of the debate is how everybody seems to feel the need to be superior to everone else in their knowledge of grammar! The prize goes to Mr Crut so far, for outstanding condescencion. I prefer \’an historic\’, with the \’h\’ clearly spoken because to me it sounds better and I\’m sure that it accords with the grammar I learnt as a schoolboy. However I also say \’a house\’! But consistency is indeed the hobgoblin of the small mind.
To (some of) the people whose emails are referenced in this piece – I can only say I pity you for: (a) being so obnoxious, arrogant and pedantic that you\’ll probably never achieve anything in life, and (b) being woefully ignorant.Why don\’t you get your facts straight before writing in with abusive comments?Oh and for anyone who\’s wondering – they irony of my own comment here, in light of what I\’ve just said, is not lost on me.
"An historic" sounds like usage which lives on from a few hundred years ago, and is embedded in clichédom. I imagine that not pronouncing the h in history, or the h in \’erbs if you\’re American, is an \’omage to the French in our language. I wonder – do the people who drop the h in history also pronounce envelope as though it begins with o? And I\’m truly impressed that these people, particularly the supremely patronising Mr Crut, actually managed to find an address to write to!
I am sorry but I find it ridiculous the number of people who actually use the word \’an\’ in places where it does not fit, to make matters worse \’they\’ the people who wrote in insisting that MSN used the word A incorrectly need to go back and read their dictionaries or maybe take proper english lessons….then maybe they will discover that what they are suggesting is complete and utter piddle……The only time that I have heard the word AN used so incorrectly has been here in england….for instance some people suggest that they have AN HEADACHE……its unfortunate that for people who are english speakers the english language has \’gone to the dogs\’. MSN I am sorry that you had to defend your proper usage of english to morons with nothing better to do. Have a good day.
I don\’t care what The Guardian Guide says, it.s an. It\’s Hippotomi as the plural for the hippotomus. It may be old fashioned, but right is right. Tracey, it\’s not proper usage & I resent being called a moron, that is just rude!
looks like they made an harse of it
Oswald Crut:What\’s a " glockel-stop"?
I would actually suggest that in the context of the word \’historical\’, the correct word to use is, in fact, \’a\’.The argument is that \’an\’ should replace \’a\’ in the case of a word beginning with \’h\’ when the \’h\’ becomes silent. An example of this is in the case of the word \’honourable\’ – a word which clearly demonstrates the silent nature of the \’h\’. In the case of \’historical\’ the letter \’h\’ is clearly pronounced and not simply as a forerunner to the vowel.Say it out loud if you don\’t believe me. Follow this link if you’d like the rule of the two explained further: http://www.english-zone.com/grammar/a-anlessn.htmlIn the case of the word hippopotamus, as it is correctly spelled, then the debate below contains a moot point. It is widely accepted that the plural of hippopotamus is EITHER hippopotami OR hippopotamuses. Follow this link if you\’d like to read my source for this in particular: http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/plurals?view=ukNormally I am not so fussed about grammatical debates, but this one in particular seemed to have enraged so many and I can\’t quite understand why. It seems absurd that a 19 year old is more capable of keeping their cool than those who, I assume, are adults far beyond my years.I applaud Tracey Zengeni on her argument with which I whole-heartedly agree. It is a huge shame the way in which we British people have let the language slide. My particular pet peeve is the incorrect way in which people use there, their and they\’re so interchangeably. Please learn the difference.There – indicates a place or location e.g. It was over there.Their – indicates possession e.g. It\’s their pen.They\’re – an abbreviation of \’they are\’ e.g. They\’re in the bedroom.I apologise for the length of this comment but in consideration of the comments preceding my own, and those primarily responsible for this entire article, I suggest that it is not the most pedantic and is hopefully more informative than condescending. Good day to you all.
I\’m an "an historic …" person myself. I think a previous poster has it: this is something derived from the French.Glokel-stop = glottal stop.
WHO CARES?!?!?!?!?!? MY LIFE WOULD HAVE GONE ON PERFECTLY NORMAL WITHOUT KNOWING THAT!
With the poor spelling and poor grammer on MSN I rate MSN alongside Wikipedia………..
I vouch for \’a\’, not \’an\’.At the end of the day, everything is phonetics nowadays. Over the next five generations, House will become \’ouse, horse will become \’orse and history will become \’istoric.English is changing as we know it. Who says \’Olde\’ these days?My point exactly. But it\’s futile my friends!
Arrgghh so what! It isn\’t the actual end of the world *frustrated sobs*
Sorry – it\’s \’an\’, not\’a\’ – always will be. \’Modern\’ interpretations seem just to mean slack attention to grammar.
Firstly, it IS \’a historic\’, NOT "an", rule of the silent \’h\’ etc. Blah, blah, blah.Secondly, and just to slightly change the issue of debate here, whilst people are having a good moan about grammar and spelling, I would like to throw out my personal pet peeve, the word definitely. THERE\’S NO BLOODY \’A\’ IN IT!!!!!!!!!! I would hazard a guess that this is possibly the most commonly (accidently) misspelt word on the vast majority of comments, and not just on MSN.Well, now I\’ve got that off my chest the world seems a much better place for it and I am sure I have improved society in some way. I shall sleep better at night now knowing that I have put right what so many have made wrong.
And one last thing, using \’a\’, not \’an\’ is NOT a "modern interpretation"! It is the correct, historical useage of the word.
Oswald Crut writes.. proceeded by a glockel-stop. Does he mean .. preceded by a glottal stop? Anne
Us pedants will win the day. H is not always a silent vowel- true it is when we say "hour", or "honour", when we correctly use an as aprefix.When it is an "asperiate H" (Historic, hovel, hybrid"), we must, and should use "a" as the prefix in order to ensure that stuffy ponses who think they are superior (either educationally or for some other self bloating reason) don\’t try to divide us.This is so self explanatory in my view, and let us all laugh at those who are seriously going t0 continue to say "pass me an hose" – twannocks, the lot of them. (AND, by the way,we you say the letter H when reciting the alphabet it is always to be pronounced "AITCH", and NOT "HAITCH" – that resally gets my goat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Well done MSN !
Honestly….you need to all get a life! So what if their grammer isn\’t perfect, stop being so petty and find something useful to do with your time!!!
Just to let you know the plural of hippopotamus is actually hippopotami not hippopotamuses……..
Look, there\’s an hedge and there\’s an hill! (and I\’d be a pirate!) —->"Please try to make your writers use the correct grammar and sentence construction. Your current headline reads, "A Historic Alliance". The correct version is "An Historic Alliance". Words which start with "H" are always preceeded by "an", not "a". I\’m fed up with seeing these sorts of errors on your website. It\’s appalling. Presumably most of your writers have degrees, so they should know better"
Get AN Life?
I would just like to take the opportunity to thank all the contributors who decided to use the correct spelling of the word "grammar" in their posts. Anyone who has used the spelling "grammer" has automatically devalued anything they have chosen to say on the subject regarding grammatical correctness.
Heavens! If you\’re using The Guardian as a reference point, I\’m surprised you spelled \’historic\’ correctly, never mind use of \’a\’ or \’an\’. When did correct use of english become a matter of \’style\’? For all the other comments saying it doesn\’t matter, or "who cares if it\’s \’a\’ or \’an\’?" and then going on to complain about spelling – the \’a\’ / \’an\’ issue is the thin end of the wedge. Beyond this, spelling, punctuation and grammar deteriorate to the extent of making communication ambiguous or even unintelligible. One observation from the Guardian \’style\’ guide – the guidance is silent on \’Hirst, Damien\’. Shouldn\’t it say "use \’fraud\’"?
Use of \’an\’ is restricted to the silent following h …. eg \’an hour\’. An h (another example!)you can hear (aspirated) doesn\’t need one. It actually feels difficult to say \’a hour\’ in normal quick speech.Maybe this was not the case a hundred or so years ago. but English (capital E, please) is a living growing thing. I teach it in China, and Mandarin is the same. Uses words like byebye, ok, hello etc with no worries about where those words came from. We must learn to live with it, when the language of our youth changes. Stop getting pedantic and nostalgic – go with the flow!The French tried to ban phrases like \’le weekend\’ and \’le rosbif\’. If they keep it up their language will go the same way as Latin. Welsh is almost there – and good riddance to the lot of them!
I used to study " istory " at school , h being a silent consonant .Seems the cockneys got it right !
"Words which start with "H" are always preceeded by "an", not "a". I\’m fed up with seeing these sorts of errors on your website."Duncan my friend, you are WRONG! I suppose it is an horrible thing to do, or an homosexual, or an heterosexual, or an hand. Of course it isn\’t "Always" an "an" before the letter H. Only in certain circumstances, such as An Historic (try saying "an history")
Oh, and being an "an" or an "a" before a word begining with H has got nothing to do with if the H is silent or not. It is to do with the other "letters" surrounding it, and how much better it sounds, and how easier it is to say! "History" doesn\’t have a silent H, it is prenounced, however it is "A History" and "An Historical" – it\’s nothing to do with it being a H! Stop moaning anyway peeps! You\’d swear it\’s a big thing!
Queens English or Indian English, I believe, that we say, a. A History of Europe and not \’An Hstory of Europe\’ b. it was a historic achievment, and not \’an historic achievement\’Therefore, the use of the title "A historic alliance" published in MSN UK Page seem to be more appropriate. The prefix usage has taken twists and turns because of the popularity of American English spellings and the prepositions they use.How\’ever, a number of people have commented about this show they care \’grammar\’ and correct use of English is very much valued by the various commentators.
Depending on how its read, both are correct which has been pointed out. To the people who dont care…..I do. It\’s the fact that a style guide has to be used has made me laugh.
Oh and by the way I pronounce the H in history, I have never known it to be silent?
@Matt Ball, the writer of the article. One of the most annoying things is to have jack***es try correct your grammar when there\’s nothing wrong with it in the first place. Well done in showing them for the epic fails that they are. But seriously, you should take more pride in your work.You should\’ve posted the name next to each of those comments and then rubbed their failure into their faces. Like this: "Epic fail losers! Now get off the interwebz and come back when you\’re a little more enlightened"PS its always "A historic…" "an" comes in when the next word begins with a vowel. A silent consonant doesn\’t change things. (In this case, the consonant isn\’t even silent unless you speak like a whackjob) Anything else is wrong, whether its recommended by the Times or the Queen herself. Deal with it